Student Debt

[c9]

Which scheme is more workable?

1. Universities charge $4000 per student in tuition, government supplies $10000 per student in funding. (essentially, status quo). Students graduate with an average of $20,000 student debt. Universities forced to cut programs and services to maintain best programs. Adding more students past a certain bar actually reduces the per-student funding from government. (this is also the status quo)

2. Universities let tuition float, completely capitalist, with one year of tuition rising to $10,000 or even $15,000. But almost all of the money is plowed back into bursaries and grants for lower-income students, and the remaining money is used to improve programs and services. This means that the richer students, the ones most able to afford high tuition, pay it, and the least able don't. Could be cynically called another tax.

Paul Wells, a conservative-yet-often-quite-socialist columnist in Maclean's, is blogging on about tuition fees of late. Interesting reading. Tell me (and him too) where his mistakes are. (visit the link and read from the bottom up)

He claims that average student debt for graduates of Harvard is $12,000 CDN. I can't find proof, but have only searched for a few minutes.

Comments

[jdhorner.livejournal.com]

if i ever catch a canadian complaining about the cost of higher education i will shoot them on the spot. dead, right there.

University of Virginia, a PUBLIC school, state funded, charges $25,000/YEAR for regular undergraduate degrees. unless you were lucky like me, and got it for free due to being horribly poor and having a single low-income mother, you're going to graduate with usually tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt. period. there's no way around it.

now, my friends becky and amy, who attended Boston University and University of Pennsylvania respectively, each paid nearly $36,000/YEAR for their undergrad degrees.

it's unbelievable.

and those are USD, btw. ;-)

[c9.livejournal.com]

What sort of GPAs are required to get into those schools? One of this columnist's points is that a lot of Canadian schools have really high entry grades (like 89% for plain Arts) because it costs them too much to admit more students, since the government gives them less and less with each extra student. Additional funding (like at BU or UPenn) might allow them to a) pay for the poor kids and b) let far more people in. I don't know how pie-in-the-sky his ideas are though.

[jdhorner.livejournal.com]

(side note. private schools in the US, (all the ivy leagues, and many many others) do not really receive government funding. so they are able to really pick-and-choose their admitted types. public schools, OTOH, are usually funded on a limited-basis federally, and hugely by the STATE they're located in. e.g. Univ. of VA got nearly 65% of it's total funding from Virginia...) of course, the observant would realize here that if the Federal Government cuts educational funding, then ALL states lose money in the deal, and thusly have less to give to the state schools.)

there are a range of required criteria... they take your SATs, SAT IIs, (even your ACT scores, sometimes). there's your entire high school record, and high school GPA. finally, there are usually two to three essay requirements.

of course, with affirmative action, the lines get a little blurred as well as far as racial concerns... but we won't go there.

U. Penn (an Ivy League school) is really tough. My school, Univ. of VA, only accepted 11% of the out-of-state engineering school applicants.

not too sure about B.U., but they are also a decently tough school to get into.

ok. this doesn't really answer your questions.

my SAT score was 1300 combined, and my ACT was a 33 composite. My high school GPA was a 4.08 our of 4.0 (because of college-level weighted classes), and my essays rocked, if i do say so myself.

keep in mind though, school funding works on many different levels here.

first, you have three types of aid: grant, loan, and work-study. within those three types, different people pay for them.

for example, almost anyone can get federal government subsidized and unsubsidized loans. these are loans directly from the govn't and are usually at a _great_ low-interest rate. you do not pay them back until you have been out of school for six months. the govn't offers a third type of loan, called a Ford Federal Direct loan, that your PARENTS must sign for, and they are the primary party responsible for payback. (but most parents just have their kids make the payments after school's over). keep in mind, however, the the highest amount you can get in federal loans, while fairly high, is limited each year. with every year you are in school, the amount avail. for borrowing increases. these loans are available to everyone, and are school-independent.

also in the loan department would be the types of loans that individual schools offer. for example, i took a small loan from UVA, which worked exactly like the federal loan: i was responsible for payments after graduation/leaving school. some schools do not offer these, and those that do have widely varying amounts.

continued...

[jdhorner.livejournal.com]

next, grants. again, there are two kinds. federal and individual school grants. federal grants are few and far between. they are basically "free money" for you. but these PELL grants are hard to qualify for. you basically have to be dirt poor and show 100% financial need (more on that later). individual schools may also offer grants, usually more like a scholarship, that you can apply for based on either need or academics. again, depends on how big the school's endowment is, etc...

work-study is basically a job you have during school, working for the university in some capacity, where both the federal government and the school sort of "front" you the money... it goes toward your bill, and then you "work it off" sort of thing. these are usually low-paying, and are only to supplement other types of aid you get.

many students also take out private loans from regular banks and credit companies.

now ALL of this, every single piece of it, is regulated by the FAFSA... "Free Application for Federal Student Aid" Nearly 100% of schools in the US require EVERY student to fill one of these out. why? because the schools want to know one magical number... the EFC.

what's the EFC you ask? it's only the golden number. it stands for "Expected Family Contribution". basically, it's a flat dollar amount that the US Government believes you and your family should be responsible for and they tell the schools you're applying to that number. they take into consideration your records, and your family's tax records and incomes, owned property, assets and liabilities, etc... it's quite a financially-invasive form (over 100 questions i believe). and you have to do it every year, just in case your incomes change.

my EFC? $0.00. that's why the two schools i applied to both offered free rides through the grants they had and all that stuff. my academic record (they really wanted me) combined with the fact that the federal govn't said i would be able to pay $0.00 (they might lose me) made them "show me the money".

my friend amy's EFC was nearly $28,000.00. why? her dad owned real estate and had lots of savings. so she was offered next to nothing from Penn, even though her academic record was slightly better than mine. she showed them though. through private scholarship organizations, she was able to almost secure her own free ride.

phew! i think that's about it. there are nuances here and there... things i've forgotten about, etc...

more questions? please, ask!

[whobunkyboo.livejournal.com]

You mean the green ones? How do you manage to figure out which ones to keep for the paying of bills and which to keep for the dollar off at Canadian Tire?

Oh right...no Canadian Tire.

I am currently paying $1000 per three credit course (graduate level)to the University of Alberta. I will have to pay a total of around $12,000 to do my Master's.