Puzzling Educational Stat

[c9]

Paul Wells posted some interesting numbers on tuition recently. Unfortunately the original article that triggered it is gone in the new Maclean's revamp, but the data is all out there with statscan.

What's better: higher tuition, or lower tuition? Why?

This is a no-brainer for the "typical" left-wing (or right-wing) person. Especially when they're young and still freshly wounded from tuition rates. However there's an interesting puzzle here: Quebec has the lowest tuition and the lowest university participation rate. Nova Scotia has the highest tuition and the highest rate of university participation.

Hmmm.

Comments

[thespos]

That actually makes sense, if you consider supply and demand.

[gueny.livejournal.com]

I think it would be a mistake to consider those facts in isolation. There are also a number of other things about Nova Scotia and Quebec that are different. For example, you don't have a hope in hell of finding stable employment in Nova Scotia if you are not educated... if even then.

And Quebec... they're Quebec. Nothing makes any sense about them. Maybe they're all too busy being gay, doing coke, and trying to break up the country to go to school.

[jdhorner.livejournal.com]

i say, "who cares!"!

university tuition in canada is so freakin' cheap, period, that i don't think it matters. i swear, paying top dollar at the most expensive places in canada is still a steal.

i'm only saying this 'cause that snipped entry you linked to doesn't make much sense to me. in other words, i don't understand what he's saying.

[jdhorner.livejournal.com]

yeah. i keep re-reading it, and he's getting on my nerves more and more.

"[...]and in places like BC, where the cutoff entry grade for UBC a few years ago was 89%, low tuition starts to look like a conspiracy between the state and the lucky students to keep the rabble out."

what? low tuition keeps the rabble OUT? ??

and these (quebec low enrollment, low cost // nova scotia high enrollment, high cost) figures are crap. there are probably a lot LESS people in nova scotia in general, and all of them, on average, probably make a bit more money, yes? i just have a feeling this is all weird.

i can't advocate enough how much i feel that higher education should be governmentally subsidized as much as possible, making it accessible to as many as possible.

[c9.livejournal.com]

The argument goes like this: low tuition means universities can't make much on students, so they let fewer in. Since they let fewer in, the required grades go up, keeping the rabble out. :)

Nova Scotia has less students, but in fact has the highest percentage of out-of-province students of all the provinces. The people of Nova Scotia do NOT make more money than almost anybody.

The argument isn't that tuition shouldn't be subsidized, but the manner of subsidy is important. For example, making tuition cheap in Quebec means that even the richest kids get cheap tuition. If they made it expensive, but gave the poor kids bursaries, it would be considered by some to be a better arrangement, because the rich would be paying more.

[jdhorner.livejournal.com]

if the university wants to charge 25,000 tuition annually, and the government covers the first 20k, making it five grand for the student, shouldn't the part that was covered by the government still go to the school? or support the school in SOME way? i mean, having the govn't make it cheaper is one thing, but keeping the portion they reduced is just stealing. or something. what i'm getting at is that saying they won't make as much off the students doesn't seem like it should hold water. the tuition is being -subsidized-, not actually LOWERED. right?

and i'm not saying that everyone should get into every school. but if they all cost around the same money, it should be other factors that make each of them "better", "more attractive", "competitive" than the next. i still think that the best and the brightest DO deserve to have specific opportunities made available to them in the way of very hard to get into programs, and schools even. (otherwise, like in the states, everyone would want to go to the best schools, and we'd all have a bunch of annoying havard grads running around)

and your last point makes sense. that's the sort of system i'm personally used to. in the US, every student MUST submit a FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) that gives them a magic number: their family's "EFC", or, expected family contribution. the lower that number, the better, because it means you're eligible for more federal aid. my number was always zero, and so i always qualified for the maximum aid levels from UVA and the government. (since my mom was poor, single, and had another dependent child)

of course, there are also academicm merit-based scholarships, based on high school grades, standardized test scores, and other factors, etc... as well as stipends and grants given to minorities and other special groups.

ANYWAY. higher education in the US has gotten out of hand. it was nearly $30,000 per year for out-of-state students at univ. of virginia when i left (the country's tied-for-number-1 public university), boston university was over 40k, and i believe that UPenn was well into the mid-40s. and that's just for each year of the four for a bachelors degree. were i to still get an EFC of "0", both the feds and the school would only subsidize so much, leaving me to take out loans for the rest. friends of mine not so lucky to have a zero EFC leave their undergrad careers with debt close to six figures. JUST FOR A BA DEGREE.

that's why i can't believe that anyone would ever, first of all, claim that higher education in canada is inaccessible. i'm curious: what's average university tuition per year in canada? for the top 10 or 20 rated schools? per province?

i certainly have no problem with raised rates, as long as drastic measures are made so that not a single impoverished or low-income person is thusly eliminated from the chance to attend the same school/program they would have otherwise been able to before. and NOT with loans.

sorry. i'm rambling now. higher education in canada, like many other things, just confuses me. for a country with so many less people than the US, everything seems MORE complicated than it needs to be. (e.g. politics, education, healthcare... but i'm still getting used to it all, so there you go)

[canuckotter.livejournal.com]

Nova Scotia has less students, but in fact has the highest percentage of out-of-province students of all the provinces.

One possible way of looking at it is that Nova Scotia has more universities than it really needs for its own populace. Universities need a certain size before they're cost-effective, so Nova Scotian institutes have lower acceptance criteria than other schools so that they can get enough people into school to pay for the expense of having the school in the first place.

As for Quebec... Even many franco-Ontarians don't want to go to school in Quebec. Anglophones are even less likely to consider it. It's no surprise they don't have as many out-of-province students.

[zedinbed.livejournal.com]

Correlation!! If I spelt that right? :p

Honestly, I don't think someone goes: "Oh! Its going to cost me $2000 less annually to go to school. Maybe I should just give up on the thing. Its so damned cheap that it just can't be worth it".

That whole increasing price increases demand works for luxury products like jewellery or custom cars but I doubt something as essential as a higher education in Canadian society can be viewed as a luxury anymore. There's probably a lot of important factors to consider for example the lower number of students enrolled would force the administration to drop their tuition fees rather than a lower tuition encouraging people not to seek a higher education. That and many, many other factors.

[simplisticton.livejournal.com]

The Canadian workforce doesn't need University educated people. It needs tradespeople. Someone getting an electrician's certificate is more valuable, in the short-run need-warm-bodies-now supply economy the Conservatives are fond of, than a new electrical engineer.

A plumber is more valuable to the Canadian economy than an art historian.

Depressing, non?