c9: (Global Warming)
c9 ([personal profile] c9) wrote2006-12-28 04:16 pm

An Inconvenient Truth - DVD Special Features

I received a copy of An Inconvenient Truth on DVD for Christmas from Vinny's Mom, and I'm just getting around to looking at the special features today. There's some really interesting stuff.

The DVD was assembled a full year after the movie was completed, and there's a mini-movie with Al Gore going through the dozens of studies and new pieces evidence that have appeared in late 2005 and early 2006. He references things shown in the movie, and gives more details or provides specific examples of even higher temperatures in the past year.
There are eight sections or so, on things like hurricanes, ocean acidification, soil moisture, the permafrost, and others. It includes extended scenes from his slide show too, which just makes me want to see his full slide show more.

It also makes me want to study climate science. I get very frustrated to see thousands upon thousands of highly-knowledgeable, skilled, experts talking about things they understand, and to then see climate professional change deniers, funded by companies that think they can't adapt, get all the press. What's especially frustrating to me is not knowing all the details about every single topic, so I can't respond effectively to those sorts of debates.

Just need to get Vinny done with school, then it's my turn again.

[identity profile] kdborg.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 01:14 am (UTC)(link)
I received a copy of the book for Christmas. I'll be reading it soon.

Money rules, unfortunately. Once the public realizes the problems of the environment, they'll push money towards environmentally friendly products. Then Big Business will fall in line.

[identity profile] zedinbed.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
Hmm, from your reply to my posts, I think you are well equipped to make a well informed response to someone who has a different perspective of the environment. The truth of the matter is no-one is an expert on any given matter but it takes the will to go out there, educate yourself on issues that interest you and fight the battles that you wish to fight. :p

BTW, I like the idea of two spouses working back and forth giving the other a chance to educate him/herself better.

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)
One thing that frustrates me is that there are some people who are climate change experts. And yet they are ignored or bad-science'd out of the way, pushing governments and individuals to bad decisions.

But you're right, all we can do is learn, rather than assuming we already know everything.

[identity profile] joecdn.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 10:38 am (UTC)(link)
I got the DVD for Christmas, and while I agree with the notion that Global Warming is a problem that needs to be addressed immediately - I don't find Al Gore's scientific research to be very accurate.

Examples:

1. Gore talks about the mountain pine beetle infestation attacking Spruce trees in Alaska. The pine beetle infestation is attacking BC as well, and it's well known that pine beetles ONLY attack pine trees. It's important to note that I watched this DVD while in Quesnel, surrounded by three of my uncles, all of whom have degrees in agriculture, botany, entomology and forestry - one of whom has his PhD.

2. Gore discusses the use of glaciers for drinking water in Asia. While glacial "retreation" is a problem - isn't it to be expected that if you're drinking the water from a glacier that eventually it will disappear. It's not as if there are little engines inside of a glacier producing more ice, as an ice machine would.

3. The weather data from anything past 50 years ago is speculative - weather records weren't considered accurate until about 1950, so there's no way a correlation can be made that's 100% conclusive to one such event occuring.

I also didn't like how he'd go into personal asides, such as his son getting hit by a car. It seemed irrelevant to the movie and the message - and seemed more like a sob story meant to make us sympathize with him. I'm a big Gore fan - but this movie actually disappointed me more than anything - the lack of factual evidence that was presented.

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 01:38 pm (UTC)(link)
1. I just re-watched that section of the DVD, and Gore actually says:
"You're heard of the pine beetle problem? Those pine beetles used to be killed by the cold winters. But there are fewer days of frost, and so the pine trees are being devastated. [new slide] This is part of fourteen million acres of spruce trees in Alaska that have been killed by bark beetles. The exact same phenomenon."
So he didn't actually say that pine beetles were attacking spruce trees, but easy to accidentally mix those two up when watching the movie.

2. Nature has been drinking water from glaciers since they first formed. Glaciers create rivers, and provide a huge percentage of all drinking water on the planet. There is a little engine creating more ice: the water cycle. Glaciers are always changing in size, shrinking and growing (and even moving). Learn more here.

3. Weather and Climate are two different fields. Climate is the study of weather patterns averaged out over 30+ years. It involves measuring amounts of oxygen in ice for example, and checking plant records to show different plants in different parts of the world. You're right that talking about the weather in the year 600,000 BCE is almost impossible, but talking about the climate is not. We have significant pieces of evidence of what the global average climate looked like at that time.

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 01:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I also watched the director's commentary yesterday, and the director actually mentioned those person vignettes and how Gore didn't want them in, he felt that people would react negatively to them just like you did. The Director insisted that they put them in to create more personal connections with Gore, rather than just watching a slide show for 100 minutes. When Gore is in the same room as you, it's easier to connect with him than it is when he's just on a screen, so from a presentation perspective I understand the director's insistence.

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Further to #3: can you provide some citations for this? I have seen very credible weather records (in terms of simple observed temperatures at least) going back about 200 years -- can you provide some information about where you got "50 years"? Since we've had thermometers longer than 56 years, I'm curious about this.

[identity profile] joecdn.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 04:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Just as an aside to my last response though....

I don't really endorse the site in any way, because it looks pretty conservative to me, but it's at least good to consider all points of view - and my uncle sent that out for consideration. It came in a PDF format originally, but I guess it was posted there first. So yeah....

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 07:10 pm (UTC)(link)
How much you want to bet that all the well-reasoned, clearly written, science-based and actual-fact-filled responses are also getting forwarded around? It's sad.

Good to consider all points of view? Sure. Especially when they have scientific basis. When they're spreading junk science and lies? Maybe less so. :)

[identity profile] joecdn.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 04:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Just read all your comments, can't really put them together right now cause I just got up, but give this a read:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm

It points out some interesting facts.

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 07:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Let's take a closer look at this article.

First off, CanadaFreePress is an incredibly biased and right-wing publication. They think Stephen Harper is not conservative enough. But that's not reason enough to discount it entirely.

Secondly, CanadaFreePress is an opinion site, not a science site. It is also not a peer-reviewed journal, so the people deciding what gets published and what doesn't are not scientists. But that's not reason enough to discount it entirely either.

Let's look at the article itself. There's plenty there.

1. Professor Bob Carter is a member of a professional global-warming-denying organization founded by an Australian Mining company, and he has personally received funding from ExxonMobil (source: http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/files/corporate/giving_report.pdf). Obviously everybody has to pay for their food and shelter, but it's interesting that so many who fight climate change science just happen to be funded by oil and mining companies? (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy)

2. Next, the article claims that there are "hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change." Wikipedia lists precisely ten climate scientists, by name, who oppose the consensus on global warming. By contrast, Wikipedia lists seventeen major scientific organizations, representing probably thousands of scientists, who support the consensus on global warming.

3. His point about scientists who study one specific area not necessarily having the expertise to speak on global climate change matters is valid. Amusingly, the very first scientist he quoted does not study global climate change, and is trained in marine geology. He talks about climate change, but his expertise is not there. This is a common theme.

4. Dr Tim Ball, who is quoted next, does actually study climate. Interestingly, his original degrees were in Arts, and only his PhD was in science, but I don't know his background enough to really judge that. I found an interview with him (http://www.fcpp.org/main/publication_detail.php?PubID=864) where he uses several known-to-be-false arguments against the global warming consensus.

5. Ball claims that "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," but in fact the models have been proven quite accurate (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/19/51921/827). James Hansen for example, who presented a famous set of three predictions to the US Senate in 1988, has been proven very accurate: http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/04/hansen-has-been-wrong-before.html.

6. Next, the article claims "Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear." In fact, we hear the debate more often than not. Over half of media reports on climate include some quotes from global warming deniers. At the same time, 0% of peer-reviewed published scientific journal articles show the debate. The exact problem is that we do hear the debate even though among scientific organizations the debate is mostly over.

[identity profile] c9.livejournal.com 2006-12-29 07:08 pm (UTC)(link)
7. Professor Tim Patterson at Carleton University claimed "In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." The problem is that we do not have extensive and consistent data for 450 million years ago. We do have consistent and extensive data for the last 650,000 years. Additionally, 450 million years ago was before there were any land animals in existence yet. I bring this up just to say that what has happened in the past million years is maybe even more relevant than what happened 450 million years ago. But I'm no expert, so take that with a grain of salt. :)

8. It's the sunspots, he says. Nope. http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/04/its-sun-stupid.html

9. The next section features Dr Boris Winterhalter. I don't know his background, but I note that the article doesn't actually address what Gore talked about in his presentation and in the movie: melting pools and water drilling down underneath glaciers. Instead it complains about the video of ice crashing into the water.

10. Next, they talk about Antarctic ice breaking off and floating away. "...just like it has done back in time." The changes are not "just like they have done" unless the individuals are talking about hundreds of thousands of years, which is not stated. Additionally, they bring up the false argument of "Antarctica is growing, so it's all ok". First, the data shows tiny growth, and there's very little data. There's more data showing shrinkage. Second, it's OK for Antarctica to grow and for the planet as a whole to warm -- just like it can be cold in Burnaby and warm in Miami on the same day. (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/4/211834/644) In fact, Greenland is growing internally but shedding ice externally, losing about 200 cubic km each year.

11. Next, another region-based statement. Part of the Arctic has shown "fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise". Again, taking the climate record of one small area and saying it obviously contradicts decades of science and hundreds of thousands of years of evidence around the globe is not valid science.

12. A cute argument about the map projection Gore uses. Mercator is very inaccurate in the way it shows the continents, this is true and undisputed. But Dr Morgan claims that if only they had used a more fair map, the warming and cooling areas displayed on the map would have been closer together in size.


This article also made it onto Slashdot back in June. It got lots of debate, and you'll find a bunch more interesting responses there (http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/14/209235&threshold=3) from both sides of the debate.